#my main boy Ascension

[artificial-ascension]

All my fursonas are either god like beings from other worlds who eat celestial bodies for a snack or they are just some guy.

[galacticlamps]

actually ascension needs its own post since that's the one with the most details to speculate over and im starved for soho talk so i will talk to myself if need be

First the cover again, because I kinda can't get over it:

my only thing is that I had been hoping we might get Lizbeth on a cover again since she's never been on one of the boxsets before, despite being the 2nd person credited on all 4 of them (even if that's just alphabetical, still, she's the only one of the four main characters who never makes the cover)

But letting that go...

I know we already kinda knew the brief for this one but damn I didn't expect it to go quite this hard. Maybe that's just because the Parasite & Ashenden covers were (comparatively) similarish to each other and I was so pleased with Unbegotten's, and then got so used to it as the placeholder for Ascension while they kept postponing it, I wasn't expecting anything this colorful or detailed or with what I can't help but register as Fun New Outfits even though these are still like, pretty damn basic as far as costumes go. Still, it's a different vibe from everyone in suits and trenchcoats on every cover, technically. (Oh the woes of being an audio fan such that two characters owning sweaters actually does qualify as new information)

On top of just being visually delightful though, I know we knew religion was gonna be a fairly big part of this one, but I didn't actually expect to get quite this much of it - though I'm glad of it for a number of reasons. The BF twitter already made the ineffable joke so I don't have to, but also yeah I did very much spend all of season 2 episode 4 of good omens half convinced Samuel Barnett & Dervla Kirwan were about to pop up around any given corner (if you will go around being gay supernatural and horrible at your messy bureaucratic jobs in midcentury soho then I'm sorry, this is where my brain's gonna go) - so, fuel to that fire. But in terms of actual important things, at least one of my Soho wishes looks to be being granted because we have a Rev Edward Folgate on the cast list, which must mean we're finally meeting Norton's father, even if his mother & brother don't appear (which they could, technically, I've definitely seen BF not list all the doublings on their cast tabs before). Religion, domesticity, and the nuclear family are all things that absolutely fascinate me when it comes to Norton's character, so getting any amount of story involving his father & his church is something I've been actively hoping for for a long time now.

(I will say I'm a tiny bit bummed Saffron Coomber isn't on the cast list to play Mia again, but I kinda figured she wasn't going to be since Greg Austin's Armitage, who's making his first recurring appearance after originating in Unbegotten, was listed ever since the boxset was announced - presumably if she was also returning, that would've been handled in the same way. But since Unbegotten ended with Lizbeth and Mia going on a date, I still held out hope. Who knows though, maybe things did go well for them and Lizbeth just has a better work/life balance than Norton so she can date someone without them getting dragged into every scifi plot. I know that's not a very common accomplishment for any Torchwood agent, but a gal can hope)

At this point I know I'm completely in the realm of speculation & even wishful thinking, but I'm really really hoping we get some more clues as to Norton's overall timeline in this one, and I have a feeling that even if there's nothing as direct as dates given, the events of a plot like this one are going to heavily influence my personal interpretation of it.

To say that life & death are major themes for the soho crew feels wildly reductive, but even by Torchwood's standards and taking into account its origins as a piece of media with Jack Harkness & his newfound immortality at the heart of it, the living/dead status of this bunch has always been fantastically up in the air to me. Obviously Ghost Mission introduced Norton as kind of a ghost before revealing more obvious ghostly characters later on to which the title might have been referring, but his being from the past did beg the question of his survival into Torchwood's present era all the same, which Outbreak later alludes to much more directly, and his habit of showing up via hologram in multiple stories only further obfuscates any certainty we might have about where & when he definitely can be said to be alive and well. Then you've got Lizbeth and Gideon both being effectively 'brought back to life' via paradoxes that prevented them ever having died in the first place. Again, they are very very far from being the only Torcwhood characters this happens to (for a sprawling EU, it's really rather impressive how often & in how many different ways Torchwood as a whole manages to circle back to being about like. chaotic undead queers at the end of every day. though I suppose that consistency is part of why I keep falling in love with its different iterations again and again). That's without even getting into the question of Norton's dubious fate in God Among Us - and I say dubious because I know some people take that to be his ultimate death, but I personally think that reading something as vague as that as having any kind of finality rather goes against the spirit of this whole world/series, not just because I want him to live. (There are obviously other ways to make him survive/reappear, but I don't see this as a River Song scenario where we can safely assume one of his earlier-released adventures had to happen at the end of his personal timeline). But wherever God Among Us falls for him, he does very much meet God in it - or at least, a god, since the sentinel in Unbegotten is also described as a god of sorts, and even if he doesn't ultimately have the status of the god Jacqueline King is playing there, Unbegotten is still full to bursting with ghosts/undead/came back wrong/echo characters to continue underscoring that life/afterlife theme.

So all things considered, even allowing for the fact that we know Norton's twin hobbies are lying about himself and abusing time travel to suit his own ends/ever-shifting alliances, I find it difficult to believe we could get through a whole 6-part boxset about religion & death without something providing some kind of compelling evidence about where this adventure fits in among his other run-ins with apocalypses and gods and ghosts and dead-but-still-here characters/creatures, so I'm very much looking forward to any further exploration on that front.

And lastly, and least intellectually, I really want to know what the hell 20th-century Torchwood's obsession with Reginalds is. Reading through the cast list, I had to do two separate doubletakes over the character 'Sir Reginald Peebles' - firstly, because I had Reginald Rigsby on the brain, this being Soho (and the other Troughton brother being so active on BF's releases for this same month) - and secondly, because reading this in conjunction with the announcement for the July monthly adventure in which the new main Torchwood guy of the 20s is apparently called Sir Reginald Dellafield, there was a brief moment where I took that monthly release to be a tie-in with Ascension. I don't expect it to be, but damn. was it really so popular a name?

anyways, catch me thinking about those stained glass windows for the next couple months I guess (and knowing Torchwood Soho, for a long long time after it comes out as well lol)

[m1d-45]

Happy Valentine's day!

teddy, flowers for you - 🌸🌷🌹💐!

midas, flowers for you - 🌸🌷🌹💐!

sibling anon and stew anon and tiger anon or anyone else - 🪷💐💐🌻🌻🌼🌺,

I hope you guys had a good valentine's day! ty for the flowers, I've also never received them apart from my family lol

I also didn't know that all our names together spelled med room that's hilarious I need to think of sm with this

speaking of genshin, your kaz is better than mine(mines having an identity crisis bc I can't chose to build him on EM or crit rn) (and am overall focusing on ayaka since I'm building her rn)

- 🍄 (feeling very tempted to just drop my uid, the only other game I play apart from genshin is TCG *help* I play genshin sm my friends let me into their accts to play for them)(ar55 and world lvl 8 btw)

uhh something quirky so i can put a readmore here

yeah if you :

midas teddy mushroom

mid ted room

med room

it’s stilted but it works

also the only reason my kazuha is even okay at being a dps is because i want “what’s meta” and put everything everywhere into attack stats. it’s only recently that i’ve been trying crit and it’s giving me a crisis. i learned tighnari scaled off em and nearly cried.

aLSO IF YOURE BUILDING AYAKA WE COULD RUN THE DRAGONSPINE DOMAIN TOGETHER!!

i need blizzard for my chongyun n kaeya (who somehow?? still doesn’t have a good circlet???) so we could farm… together

(yes i know i shouldn’t build chongyun bc he’s not a good unit meta-wise or wtv but yk what fuck that and whoever says otherwise he works so well in permafrost w/ xingqiu that i don’t care. “oooo hes bad at cryo applications and shatters freezes” how about you get good at the game and accept that the boyfriends work well together.)

(hi i’m midas and have a lot of emotions about chongyun. he and razor are my claymore sons and i would die for them. if anybody clowns on their sword boyfriends then they’ll face my blade in a duel to fhe death)

[venussaidso]

Mercury Dominant Themes — 𝐍𝐚𝐤𝐬𝐡𝐚𝐭𝐫𝐚 𝐎𝐛𝐬𝐞𝐫𝐯𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐒𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐭 𝟖

It seems to be a theme in Revati where all the wealth that has been accumulated from the Uttara Bhadrapada stage is easily accessed, but the native must be deemed worthy or in alignment with this sacred wealth and very often they are (but they gotta prove it usually). Profound, universal secrets are quietly recovered in Revati where elevating/ascension is easily achieved (whether through wealth status, spirituality, surpassing mental limitations etc).

The 12H activates so perfectly in Revati by draining everything away to remind us of those secrets so that we 'wake up' again.

I'm going to use monetary wealth and inheritance for my observation, not spiritual, so bare with me.

Revati reminds us of the duality of privilege and hardship, which is either emphasized in this nakshatra or tends to be taken for granted (how such 12H harsh lessons will come in).

We can see how Revati is the 'nepo baby' nakshatra, but there's more to it if we extend this theme a bit more.

Revati being extremely wealthy while also being a nakshatra about humanity & community further validates it being a universal sign (Pisces).

We can look at the story; The Prince & the Pauper written by Mark Twain who is Revati Moon.

The story is about two boys, the prince and the pauper, who switch places and briefly experience each other's lives. The prince experiences the struggle of a commoner's life, and the pauper gets a taste of the responsibilities of the royal life. This makes them have a deeper understanding and even empathy for each other and others alike. Revati emphasizes the shared humanity of all of us, and that's why this nakshatra tends to use their wealth to give back to communities; going into foreign lands to help others that cannot be helped. This proves them being worthy of their wealth, which is now something that can be maintained and even elevated.

Gaining inheritance but only through challenging conditions is something that I associate with Revati. This falls into them proving themselves worthy of the given wealth or learning to put their ego down to be properly nourished.

The film The Bachelor (1999) is about a man, who is fearful of commitment, is made aware that the only way to inherit his grandfather's wealth is by finding himself a bride. The guy is literally commitment-phobic, but he must change his ways. He is played by a Revati Moon.

It's very interesting that films regarding family monetary/asset inheritance have (Mercurial) nakshatras which trine Revati. For example, the film The Descendants (2011) has a plot where the main character is considering on selling a pristine piece of land that has been passed down throughout generations in his family. The director of this film is a Jyestha Moon.

Or the film Inheritance (2020) stars an Ashlesha Moon who plays a character whose father dies, unfairly leaving her with a small inheritance of $1m compared to her brother - played by a possible Ashlesha Moon - who received $20m.

Unfortunately, she also inherits a lifetime of deception and deadly truths that her father left her to deal with. So, we can see how this trope looks on the flipped side where inheritance can be a curse. Mercury nakshatras are the last to deal with the (family) baggage that tend to be passed on from their family, and they're usually the ones to put an end to curses or cycles. Mercury nakshatras, in the general, are the last stage where all matters from the Jupiter/Saturn nakshatras are dealt with & released. In the film, the deceased father is interestingly played by a Vishakha Sun, Purva Bhadrapada Moon.

Actually, circling back to the film The Bachelor (1999), the deceased grandfather who's willing to pass his wealth to his Revati Moon grandson is actually played by a Pushya Moon, Punarvasu Ascendant. I find that Saturn nakshatras can make things challenging for Mercurial nakshatras, not wanting to let them off too easy. Giving them challenging conditions regarding inheritance. Sometimes, Jupiter/Saturn nakshatras can play a role in which they take advantage of vulnerable, Mercury nakshatra natives.

This is seen in the film Rain Man, which was literally directed by Revati Sun AND Jyestha Moon, Barry Levinson.

The film is about two brothers who reunite after the death of their father. The greedy, selfish brother played by a Pushya/or Punarvasu Moon who realizes that his father left his entire estate to his autistic savant brother who is played by an Ashlesha Sun. The Pushya/or Punarvasu Moon brother kidnaps the Ashlesha in hopes to get him to share his inheritance with him.

Now, very interesting how Mercury nakshatras can be born into wealth but it can all be drained away from recklessness, arrogance, or for a lesson for the natives. Going bankrupt, being dethroned etc. can be Revati/12H themes that make us go boundless, by taking everything away which we held onto most of our lives. It makes sense why the 12H is said to be co-ruled by Ketu. Nakshatras trining Revati can also have these themes extended to them.

The film 'Material Girls' is about two heiresses to a multi-million-dollar company who approach life very recklessly and arrogantly. One day a scandal they get involved in causes the downfall of their family reputation and they shift into a life of being penniless and homeless.

The film stars Jyestha Moon, Hilary Duff, and her sister, Haylie Duff, who has her Mars&Venus in Revati. And the movie is literally directed by Revati Moon, Martha Coolidge.

Another movie to mention is the very first Thor (2011) movie, in which the main character - an arrogant, reckless royal prince - is stripped of his powers and banished from his home. He lands on Earth, powerless and ordinary, where he learns humility and what it truly means to be a hero before reclaiming his status. The main character is played by Ashlesha Sun Chris Hemsworth, and the movie is directed by Jyestha Sun Kenneth Branagh. LMAOOO I MISTAKENLY WROTE JYESTHA MOON IN THE PIC

Now, onto Disney Princesses.

What do these three movies have in common? There's a commonality in their respective storylines. Rapunzel, Princess Aurora, and Princess Anastasia all have a period in the plots where they are not aware of their royal lineage or rightful place on the throne. It becomes a central narrative to move the stories towards these characters finally remembering who they are. 12H themes are at work again here, as 12H will strip you of your identity and create even more confusion of the Self. The 12H is also about remembering who you are again, being reminded of where you belong. These characters are so incredibly Piscean/12th house in nature that of course they can only be voiced by Revati natives!

Tangled (2010) — Mandy Moore voicing Rapunzel

Sleeping Beauty (1959) — Mary Costa as Aurora

Anastasia (1997) — Meg Ryan as Anastasia

Live-action version of Princess Aurora has been played by Elle Fanning; very fittingly lmao.

There's a Barbie Rapunzel movie and Rapunzel was interestingly voiced by a dominant Revati stellium.

And Rapunzel in the Shrek version was voiced by someone with two Ashlesha placements (I know, not the best example but having two repeated nakshatras make them dominant imo).

As I've mentioned, nakshatras that have the same nakshatra lord can share the same themes because they trine as a result, so they're closely connected. But Revati is the face of this post, just btw.

From what I gathered, Revati teaches humility, empathy and compassion. Revati is a nakshatra that sees humanity in all, and this trope is well embodied in the Prince and the Pauper story. Revati teaches us how class and wealth creates illusions of separation, and so the 12H takes that thing you believe 'separates' you from others so that you are reminded of the truth. Reminded, is the key word, because the truth has already been realized Uttarabhadrapada, where self-liberation and abundance is achieved. In Revati, you forget the truth that freed you in Uttarabhadrapada. So, Ketu will remind you (Pisces/12H co-ruled by Ketu) and it will hurt (the process of remembering hurts, but the aftermath is so freeing). But things can go the Disney Princess way, where you have to find your way back to yourSELF. This is how we see Revati natives losing themselves, especially in love, just to forget to remember (which is the whole point of life/humanity... EXACTLY WHY REVATI IS A UNIVERSAL NAKSHATRA).

[nekropsii]

Unprompted Elevator Pitch Time!!

Hello! My name is Nekro, and me and my team are creating a Horror Sequel/Spin-Off webcomic named Sovereignstuck. You should follow it, and here's why.

SOVEREIGNSTUCK is an in-progress MSPFA about 12 Teens, Their Friends, and a God-Making Machine - an RPG, simply titled SVURB, pieced together through mysterious scraps of code. Together, this ragtag team of young adults will have to figure out how to take control of themselves, the narrative, and win the game. But sovereignty over the story itself isn't something that can be taken without pulling a few teeth, and it's up to them to decide whether it's their own, or somebody else's...

Our main characters are a group of 12 - 10 Trolls, one Human, and one Carapacian - referred to as The Players. They all hail from the planet Afterra, a place once called Earth C by those who created it. Armed with many strange choices in weaponry, clashing personalities, and their own understanding of the Myth of The Construction, this group has found themselves the focus of the Game's attention... Much like their Ancestors, eaten alive by the game and turned into NPCs, and their newfound companions. Fighting alongside the 12 Players are The Patrons; a team of 12 Trolls who miraculously escaped their failed session one year ago, and have been dragged back into the game to provide The Players some much needed guidance. Some of them... Don't seem too keen on helping, though. You may recognize that troublemaking group - they're Reincarnations of some rather familiar faces.

Horror and antics ensue when The Players realize that the version of the game they're playing - SVURB Ver. 1.0.0 - is not only heavily glitched, down to making even their Aspect Wheel buggy... But also completely unlike the game that was spoken of in legends. How do you even cope with the implications of a Session where Light is opposite to Doom and Life is opposite to Void? How do you cope with a game where the worse your Ascension Death is, the more powerful you are? How do you cope with a game that drives you not to become a better person, but to become a better character?

At its heart, Sovereignstuck is a story about Narrative Control, Autonomy, Growing Up, and Breaking and Repeating Cycles... It's a love letter to Various Mythologies, Spin-Off RPGs, and the insanity that was the 2000's. It's a story about stories, a story about community, and a story about video games.

And if you may join us on this journey...

...We hope you enjoy the ride.

[holyadoptionpapersbatman]

TCF Prompt: Spitefic AU

This prompt is based on a dream:

Clopeh Sekka is an internationally famous author for his book: Ascension to Godhood. To put his story simply, it is a tale of a young noble blessed by the gods to defeat a world evil.

But just because he is internationally famous, it does not mean his story is good. Throughout the main character's journey, the reader could immediately tell how completely biased and obsessed Clopeh is of his main character, Cale Henituse. Thus, he is famous not for his writing, but through the reader's vicious criticisms and hate.

This does not stop him from self-publishing four books. His fifth book is his final one, where finally his character reaches godhood and corrects the imperfect world he was born in.

However, before he could get to the first word, there was a blinding light.

And.

Clopeh Sekka finds himself in a world he's only seen in his imagination.

And right in front of him, walking around town, is the man, the myth, the legend, his god, Cale Henituse himself!

But before Clopeh could do anything, to his absolute horror, Cale Henituse throws a bottle of beer towards a poor man and acts like complete trash.

His boy. His main character.

How.

How could this happen?!

Clopeh seethes, seeing red, and grabs at the young noble.

"CALE HENITUSE!" He tightens his hold at the perplexed young man. "I WILL MAKE YOU THE GOD I ENVISIONED YOU TO BE!!"

....

In another world, Kim Rok Soo blinks at his screen.

"What the fuck's going on with my fanfic?"

****

Basically, Spitefic writer Kim Rok Soo, and transmigrator self-insert Clopeh Sekka, but he's SI'ed in the wrong world 🤣🤣🤣

[11queensupreme11]

Wouldn't it be cute if Percy and Poseidon had a family similar to the little Mermaid's family?

Just imagine that Percy convinced Poseidon to take it easy and not get her pregnant thousands of times in a row since it's dangerous for his health

(they have eternity together ahead of them, I don't know why he's so desperate for Lara to have sons now, one time or another she'll get pregnant with a boy)

Together they had some daughters, all with different personalities but all equally beautiful and loved by their mother

Percy is a very affectionate and kind mother who distributes attention from the eldest daughter to the youngest

Every night she tells stories and sings her daughters to sleep

I just imagine her walking down the hallway going from room to room to bed her daughters, to the younger ones she tells lovely fantasy stories, to the older ones (who think they are too old for bedtime stories) she gives kisses and hugs

She does all this while being watched by the watchful eyes of her husband who accompanies her and waits on the doorstep waiting for her to finish so they can go to the marital bed together

Poseidon doesn't need to sleep but I think that even then he would still do it just to be with his wife (it would be interesting if even after the ascension to Percy he still possessed some necessarily human characteristics), I just imagine that he lies down and watches to Percy while she slept peacefully

Honestly, she strikes me as the type to cuddle in her sleep so it would be adorable to imagine her hugging Poseidon's torso as she rests her head directly on top of his heart while he keeps his arm around her pulling her closer whenever she tries (unconsciously) to move away or change position

I just feel like he would be so affectionate and soft to her (not to his daughters, those poor girls are mostly ignored) looking at her with love and even doing useless human things just to please her (like wasting time sleeping or having a family dinner)

I shouldn't have watched The Little Mermaid with my little cousin because now all I'm imagining is that Poseidon has the same family dynamic as Arie's family with a few modifications

Like the main change is that Poseidon is obviously thousands of times more cruel and bloodthirsty than King Triton, he would also only be gentle with Percy, in fact if you look at the film you will notice that the King practically only focuses on Ariel and ignores the other daughters, so this dynamic would be the same with Poseidon just focusing on Percy

You know that scene from Little Time 2 where the king, queen and their daughters are swimming together? The one where he gives her a beautiful music box while her daughters watch? Well I'm imagining this scene with papaseidon

Just imagine him and his daughters are swimming together near an island, his older daughters are singing while his younger daughters are playing with the fish, Percy is propped up on a comfortable rock and Poseidon appears at her side presenting her with an adorable little magic music box, your daughters are sighing over how romantic and adorable this is

If you ignore the obvious misogyny until Poseidon is a good father, he protects them, pays for their luxuries, spends time with them (even if only because Percy forced him to spend family time because everyone knows he prefers to spend his your alone time with percy)

I don't know why else I think Poseidon would have a small (very small, almost tiny and almost non-existent) favoritism for the youngest daughter who looks like Percy (like Triton's favoritism for Ariel due to her being the youngest and the daughter who looks more like her mother)

(I don't know if I've already sent this post before but I found it in my notepad so when in doubt I decided to send it again, if it's a duplicate post just ignore it)

all i can think about is that one scene where we actually get to see what happens to ariel's mom 😭😭 i can't remember much, but didn't she get killed by human pirates???? lmao, obviously that can't happen here since percy would be a goddess in this AU but they would probably still try to target her anyway LMAO JUST IMAGINE POSEIDON'S REACTION 💀💀💀

OH AND THE YOUNGEST FALLING IN LOVE WITH A HUMAN LIKE ARIEL WITH ERIC 😭😭😭 percy and possibly the other sisters would be the only one who would support it but they know daddyseidon would lose his shit

poseidon's probably gonna have flashbacks of the perthonius situation lmaooo 😭

[r0semultiverse]

How Homestuck Beyond Canon Candy Timeline has/will have parallels with Homestuck proper around and during the events of [S] Game Over

Jane Crocker heavily aligned/influenced by with Crocker Corp. Notice how her neck accessory looks very similar to the Crocker computer tiara. There's also the circuits surrounding the button, which are reminiscent of Crockertier Jane's visual mind control effect by The Condesce.

Jane also kind of looks like The Condesce with how she's silhouetted here.

The head of Crocker Corporation on a large Crocker space ship. A ship which I would like to point out looks eerily similar to the ship that The Condesce flies around in except the forks/sporks are facing the opposite direction and it's got black on it instead of mostly red.

Jake dying at the hands of Crocker influenced Jane and coming back to life parallels with this Jane coming close to killing Jake, but stopping right before death. Same green text too.

The cast of characters surrounding this time in the comic are also similar.

We also got the whole Crocker laser beam of death being hinted at which we've absolutely seen before.

I talked about this in one of my previous theories, Jake is getting a better grasp of his hope powers; so, I think we could see another hope explosion again in some capacity out of Jake's concern for Tavvy.

I could also totally see Jake being held hostage by one of the Crocker Clones A.K.A. the Brig Boys and Kanaya cutting them up with her chainsaw (hopefully avoiding Jake).

This is more of a little side detail, but Vriska is once again on the sidelines while this massive important fight takes place because she's trapped in her own personal Hell this time.

CHARACTER DEATH FLAGS - I don't know how to organize this post and there was a lot more potential evidence to this than I thought there was going into it.

Let me preface this with the fact that the existential split between Meat and Candy sometimes seems to try to course correct itself and much like certain peoples DNIs, it doesn't want any doubles. We see this with Dirk, Dave (he died even if he ascended to ultimate self afterwards), June/J/John, Terezi(seemingly), Meenah (her other self is in the black hole with Lord English so we can't necessarily confirm death but yknow), Aradia (is just Aradia), Gamzee, Calliope (that is a whole complex situation), and Rose (if her future sight is correct, but we'll get to that). Those are the only examples I can think of at this time, but it's absolutely a repeating pattern of the universe sort of course-correcting to have only one of each of our main characters exist at a time. This, at least in the cases of Dirk, Dave, & Rose seems to be related to the ascension to ultimate self, but we can't really say if that's why the other characters only get one existence at this time.

Karkat has has at least 2 deaths from around this time, one involving Crockertier Jane as well which could be a sign of things to come.

Rose's death flag is that she has literally foreseen her death in her future sight. She is thinking about Kanaya and Roxy in the same thought process while seeing her own death, feeling full of regret (even though she's trying to repress her own feelings) about her relationship to Roxy and Kanaya. Very similar to her being regretful as she was dying in Roxy's arms. I'm also guessing the bullet that hits her will be from Jake's gun, just throwing that out as a possibility.

ROSE: What... ROSE: Happened to me? ROXY: the witch got u ROXY: with her fork ROXY: but youre gonna be ok ROSE: Oh. ROSE: That's nice. ROSE: *Cough.* ROXY: maybe you uh ROXY: shouldnt try to talk now ROSE: You saved me, didn't you? ROXY: ... ROSE: Thanks. ROSE: But, ROSE: She's gone, isn't she. ROSE: For good, I mean. ROXY: ? ROSE: I saw her die. ROSE: And. ROSE: It's a shame how... ROSE: *Cough.* ROSE: A shame that I never even... ROSE: Got to tell her... ROSE: I loved her. ROXY: who?

ROSE: Kanaya. ROSE: But... ROSE: You too, mom.

Kanaya also has a death flag here in getting hit by The Condesce's laser beam of death, but it's more of a maybe given that we see Rose's future vision of Kanaya holding her body in her arms. Keep in mind though we also had this bit of dialogue about the reliability of future sight right before we saw that vision.

JADE: dont forget im more than a little versed in future sight myself ok JADE: i dont care how credible it seems, you cant depend on that information!

Jake and Jane are also on the chopping block potentially, but I can't think of a way at this time, unless Kanaya mistakes Jake for one of the clones amidst her rage and ends up cutting through him along with the Crocker clones. The one pictured below was done by Aranea who is out of the story. Maybe Meenah's trident hits Jake somehow or something, I don't know. We also have meat Jake and Jane who are doing more okay.

On top of the parallels to the doomed timeline that was [S] Game Over, we also had Vriska say that this reality was fake and didn't matter. I'm paraphrasing and I don't know if we'll get a doomed timeline situation yet with the 4 kids still in it, but I just thought the amount of parallels was interesting & worth pointing out.

I also wanted to get this out before the next update in case it's related to the flash animation and any of my predictions come true.

Alternatively I think the flash animation will be Ultimate Dirk kick starting his SBURB home brew session on Deltritus. He probably has all the tech and narrative powers to do it based on what we've seen, they just need a species they'll both be satisfied with as the players for the session.

[lizzybeth1986]

Liam and Olivia: When You Prefer The Side Character To The Main

Series - TRR's Alternative LIs: The Romances that Didn't Happen

Previous: A Brief History of Alternative Romances in Choices

A/N1: My apologies for the length of this one! There was a LOT to explore, and even more that I had cut out from my initial draft.

A/N2: This essay operates on the premise that Liam is not the "favoured LI"/"golden boy" of the team - an argument I have made in detail in other Liam-centric essays. I am not interested in arguing those same points in my comment box/reblogs. Visit the Liam section of my meta masterlist if you want to learn more about that.

CW: Mentions of non-consensual kissing. Mentions of the plot against the MC in TRR1. Very fleeting mention of the "infertility subplot" TRH pushed onto Hana.

(Screenshot from HIMEME's YouTube channel)

As I mentioned in the previous essay, TRR (along with ES, to a far smaller extent) was the only series that seemed to make an attempt to pair even their popular LIs with another character. It also was (along with TCaTF) one of the very few books that hinted at an alternative romance in the first book itself.

This section of the essay series will perhaps be the longest, since Liam x Olivia got the earliest hints, and was built up first. While the other three pairings were introduced or hinted at in Books 2 and 3, the reader got to see glimpses of a possible Liam x Olivia pairing from the finale of Book 1 onwards.

Why An Alternative LI?

TRR is, essentially, a story that hinges on the likelihood of an arranged marriage. The character that makes this entire story possible, Liam, is expected to pick a bride by the end of his social season, whether he is ready for marriage or not. The ending of Book 1 itself ties his ascension as a king to marriage.

(Screenshot from Skylia's YouTube channel)

To prove Madeleine's point, the finale actually shows us that until he picks a fiancèe, he literally won't be addressed as king, but still as Prince Liam. So while this point does get heavily retconned later on in the series, the original story itself required Liam to be married sooner than any of the other LIs.

But Liam's story doesn't just hinge on needing a good Queen for his kingdom. His arc - at least in Book 1 - involved learning that being a good king doesn't mean he needs to sacrifice his own desires or romantic sensibilities. If that were the case, he could have just been stuck with Madeleine. No - the story was supposed to be about Liam learning to validate his personal aspirations without hurting his political position. It was essential then that the woman he picked was someone he either was already in love with (the MC), or someone he grew to love over the course of the series.

When you take this context into account, having an alternative romance becomes not only convenient, but essential.

And if the MC doesn't choose Liam as her endgame...who better for this "romance" than an old friend who has always held a torch for him?

A Romantic Rival

(Screenshots from Skylia's YouTube channel)

As most of the fandom remembers the first book and the trajectory of the Liam and Olivia relationship in it pretty well, I'll try not to go into too much detail. The Olivia of Book 1 has two parallel storylines: the one with the MC, where they first start out hating and then learn to like each other...and the one with Liam, which begins with Olivia assuming she will win the social season, but becoming more and more resigned to the MC's chances of winning as her position in the competition declines.

There is obviously a lot more focus on her dynamic with the MC, for two reasons:

1. Until the MC chooses an endgame, an LI will never show more interest in another person. It will always be the alternative LI whose interest initially drives that side-story. Making an LI reciprocate that interest can result in a negative impression of them, as fans could potentially believe that their love for the MC is not genuine or special. This is the case for all LIs in the series, not just Liam.

2. Narratively, the first book wants to make Olivia's love for Liam their big character reveal. It is the first time Olivia actively opens up to the MC, and is canonically the beginning of their "friendship". So very little emphasis is placed on her emotional attachment to Liam until the Coronation (with her cactus gift and her confession to the MC before leaving), and even less on how Liam feels about her.

Whatever little we do get of Liam and Olivia's dynamic before the finale is focused on their childhood friendship. We learn from Liam that she was a sad, lonely child when they met, heartbroken by her parents' death and the negligence of the aunt who was supposed to raise her. Her attachment to Liam emerges from his support of her when they were children, and we later learn in TRH that he not only supported her, but often empathized with young Olivia and comforted her in ways that didn't give away her vulnerabilities.

Olivia claims at the beginning of TRR1 that "everyone just assumed Liam and [Olivia] would get married one day". Given what we learn later about Constantine and the Nevrakis family (and the fact that no one backs Olivia's claim at any point in the book), it is possible she was exaggerating. But it is also true that until the MC gains more popularity and Madeleine makes her entrance, Olivia is assumed to win the social season quite easily. In the same way that Madeleine is positioned as the "political" rival in Book 1's story, Olivia is viewed as the "romantic" counterpoint to the MC.

From Liam's end, there is actually very little shown about his thoughts on Olivia. It is clear that he cares for her, wants the MC to think well of her and understand her circumstances. While as a child, he comforted her when she was called a cactus by reminding her that they were tough plants that no one messed with; as an adult he is pained by her vindictiveness towards people who haven't even harmed her. There is plenty of grounds here for some sort of relationship, but enough there that shows why the MC who will marry him would be a slightly better fit.

The second half of TRR1 focuses on softening Olivia to an extent - having her and the MC optionally bond over their dislike for Madeleine (who is viewed as the "bigger bad" at this point) and having her only occasionally approach Liam for his company. Her feelings for him come to the forefront only during his Coronation, around the time she withdraws due to the blackmail exposing her parents' attempts to assassinate King Constantine.

This moment in the series completes Olivia's transition from antagonist to a possible friend. The reveal that Olivia loved Liam all along ensures that the MC can sympathize with her for not getting the man she loves, and allows the reader to envision her as a future ally.

To some who already vouched for a Liam-Olivia endgame before the finale, this moment was a confirmation. To others who didn't exactly see Olivia's actions towards Liam as rooted in affection, this moment was a revelation. Whatever it was, this moment made her extremely popular in the fandom.

But this scene also had a more important purpose - it provided players not interested in Liam, a possible out from the situation. The ending of TRR1 hinged on Liam choosing the MC as his future bride, then being forced to accept someone else when the scandal broke out. Book 2 allows the MC to explore what she wants without the expectations of a social season. The prospect of a titled lady who genuinely loved Liam being his potential endgame would make it easier for fans of other LIs. It sounded like a perfect ending for everyone.

The (Unwanted) Kiss, and What It Says About the Fandom

(Screenshots from Danni Stone's YouTube channel)

A scene that often gets ignored (or conveniently forgotten) when discussing Liam x Olivia in TRR1, is the kiss in Lythikos.

The Lythikos Ball in Ch 8 is already a social battleground of sorts for Olivia. She wields her power as hostess here - monopolising Prince Liam's company, and humiliating the MC and her friends with the worst seating and ice-cold food. Things come to a head when - while dancing the Cordonian Waltz with Liam - she forces a kiss on him, completely disregarding his ability to consent.

I use these precise words to describe this incident for two reasons. First, because canon refused to do so. Second, because most of the fandom refused to do so.

Different characters in the story respond to this incident in different ways. A shocked "what a bold play!", a sarcastic "Olivia's growing up, how sweet", and an enraged "she's gone mad with power here!" emerge from the ladies of the court - all focused on Olivia's intentions and actions. None of these responses ever address Liam's end of this situation.

Even more interesting are the options the MC is given to address the situation when Liam speaks to her later.

(Screenshots from Danni Stone's YouTube channel. This is the second dialogue option)

She either speaks to Liam like nothing happened, or engages in victim blaming. Personally I think both options are as bad as each other. Neither of these options include "are you okay?" or "were you comfortable with that?".

Liam's answer to the MC's (optional) accusations is perhaps the only time the issue of consent is even barely addressed (and even here Liam is duty-bound to think of Olivia's welfare over his own comfort). It is appalling that it takes the MC practically victim blaming this man for that to happen. And it is equally disturbing that Liam's response is so apologetic, so contrite, as if this entire situation was his fault.

The kiss is viewed as a number of things in the book: an affront to the suitors who have no power in Olivia's estate, or a political blunder. But what does it mean to the man who had this kiss forced upon him? Would he really feel comfortable or safe around her again after that? The writers clearly didn't know, nor did they care. And most of the fandom was only too happy to follow suit.

The few times this kiss was spoken about amongst the fandom, the question of consent was barely ever addressed. The kiss was either brushed aside as unimportant, seen as an indication of the "love and passion" Olivia had for Liam, or viewed as a manifestation of her jealousy towards the MC. Liam is sometimes seen as "clueless" for not "noticing Olivia's feelings...I mean, she literally kissed him!!" All of which could be true, but it doesn't erase the fact that his consent was never given, nor his comfort with the situation ever considered.

It is doubly ironic given the fandom reaction to the MC's plight in Applewood, after Tariq attempts to kiss her without her consent (though this situation involves significant privacy violations and dark conspiracies, and Liam's does not). The MC's situation was (rightfully) viewed as horrible and potentially traumatising, and many were upset that the emotional impact of it wasn't adequately addressed in the story. It wouldn't be surprising if Liam's situation wasn't viewed on the same level - given the difference in contexts - but the fandom and canon rarely saw this as something that happened to him, without his consent.

Ironically, the fandom never really considered Olivia planting a whole smacker on Liam's mouth as possible "proof" that she could engage in creepy, entitled behaviour...but they did often view Liam as "creepy" for...complimenting diamond-option outfits, or saying romantic-coded dialogues that the MC would reciprocate by default (again - I don't deny this is a problem and those lines should have been coded properly. However one cannot deny the doubt standards here). Olivia was the one who forced a kiss on the object of her affection in canon, but Liam was the one who got so many "abuser" and "harrasser" (and worse!) depictions in fanfic when TRR2 and 3 were out.

I will be addressing this particular scene again in another context, in a later essay in the series. I would like my readers here to not forget this scene, or the (lack of) outrage around it. It would be helpful to ponder over why Olivia's behaviour here is largely viewed as no big deal, especially when other side characters (and at least one main character) could be villainized for far, far less.

Olivia and Liam in TRR2 and 3

(Screenshots from Skylia's YouTube channel)

TRR1's finale and TRR2 show a small shift in Liam and Olivia's dynamic. Now that he is engaged, and in love with a woman who isn't Olivia, their interactions become sporadic and awkward. To ensure that Liam won't be viewed as a cassanova, the narrative keeps their interactions to a minimum. Group scenes that involve Liam often leave Olivia out, and group scenes that involve Olivia exclude Liam.

However, to address the "romantic potential" from TRR1's finale, the book shows Liam and Olivia interact in at least one scene in Ch 10. Here, they have a short, stilted conversation that leaves Liam concerned about Olivia's well-being, and that makes Olivia grieve over her unrequited love for him to an equally concerned MC.

Olivia's story in TRR2 largely centers around establishing her character (snarky, prickly, warriorlike. Much of this is actually a deviation from her writing in TRR1), strengthening her relationship with the MC, and integrating her into the core group.

Olivia's feelings for Liam get addressed again after the MC makes her final choice of LI. The MC's acceptance or rejection of Liam's proposal results in a bit of tension between the two women. If Liam is the MC's choice, Olivia admits to her heartbreak despite being truly happy that Liam has found love. If not, she reveals a slight resentment that the MC could so easily throw away the love that Olivia so badly wanted. The narrative allows Olivia her complicated, ambivalent feelings towards the Liam x MC match, and expects the MC to understand and sympathize. By default.

If you don't choose Liam in TRR3, his romance with Olivia does start here. And by this I mean that Liam is now allowed to reciprocate her affections.

(Screenshots from the Skylia YouTube channel (Drake playthrough). The screenshots aren't in order. 1st Liam x Olivia scene is the handholding at Applewood (5), 2nd is dancing at Vegas (1st two), 3rd is Liam asking Olivia for a dance at the finale ball (middle two), and the last is Liam asking Olivia out (6))

Even in the playthrough where Liam is marrying the MC, his default is to trust Olivia, show her kindness and staunchly defend her to people who suspect her motives. Liam advocates for her innocence in TRR3 Ch 2, even as her family becomes one of the prime suspects. The MC may vouch for her by choice...but if she does choose to suspect Olivia, it is Liam who pushes back against the idea.

By this point, the MC and Olivia can cement their friendship if the former has worked on gaining her trust. If not - the book has already created an inbuilt mechanism to ensure Olivia's loyalty anyway. It is tied to her gratitude and affection for Liam, the one person who consistently believed in her from childhood. Whether the MC makes an effort to win her approval or not, Olivia respects her. Her emotional attachment to Liam as an old friend, and loyalty to her king, ensures that her support is gained by default throughout.

Outside of his own playthrough, though, the narrative does slip in a few extra scenes where Liam shows an obvious romantic interest in Olivia. It's small - he isn't exactly yelling from the rooftops that he loves her - but it is definite progress where he seeks her out for support, dances with her and eventually asks her out to dinner at the finale. The scenes are few but prominent, and leave no doubt to the reader that Liam fully intends to court her.

So...why is Liam still single in the Drake, Hana and Maxwell playthroughs of TRH?

Writer Bias

When you read enough interviews and watch enough livestreams from the TRR team, one thing becomes very, very clear. They love their TCaTF callbacks. And no callback is more beloved to the writers than the repurposing of Zenobia Nevrakis' sprite to create her descendant, Olivia.

In this section, I will focus in particular on Kara Loo, COO of Pixelberry and one of the head writers of the TRR/H/F series. Going by several interviews and social media posts, Kara wrote most of Olivia and Drake's scenes and dialogues (along with "some of the Prince's speeches"), and was in fact the driving force behind how Olivia's character came to be, in the original series.

"...when we were creating Book 1, we wanted an evil redhead to be your antagonist, and Kara said, "Oh, what if we used Zenobia, but the twist is she's a Nevrakis descendant?"" - Jennifer Young, Looking Back on The Royal Romance (Sept 2018)

Kara has openly admitted before to having a fondness for Olivia's particular character type. In an interview with Daily Dahlia, she spoke of Val, one of the TCaTF LIs, in glowing terms that perfectly fit the way Olivia has been written as well:

"I love writing Val Greaves in The Crown & The Flame. I love writing for characters that are a little meaner and will really just say what they’re thinking, even if it isn’t exactly tactful." - Daily Dahlia's Interview with the Pixelberry Crew (Sept 2016).

The love for mean (and white! Don't forget white) women among the team, is pretty clear when you look at the kind of reception TRR's mean white women get.

Notably, Kara does have the occasional nice thing to say about Liam too. In an interview before the release of TRR2, she spoke of how "considerate and loving he is", how "there is nothing mean or selfish about him". As a Liam fan who kept seeing him bashed left and right after the TRR1 finale, those words initially felt like a massive relief.

But now, seeing the way the team treats nicer and more diplomacy-oriented characters in the series, this fulsome praise for Liam's selflessness gives me pause. It reminds me too much of how most of the team swore up and down that Hana would be their choice of LI to marry in a livestream, at the same time that they were slamming an infertility subplot on her in the books. Looking back with the knowledge of how the writers would treat Liam later, praise like this seemed less focused on finding him lovable, and more on ensuring that he gave constantly to the MC without ever getting much in return.

While Liam's treatment is not as bad as Hana or Kiara's, one must take note that the team - esp the head writers - have never really hesitated to throw Liam under the bus or retcon entire chapters and backstories to make characters like Drake seem better than him (eg. The narrative choice to have Drake claim Liam was leading the MC on when they first met in TRR3, which has led to more than one attempt to rewrite the bachelor party).

Part of this could be attributed to just the fondness for a specific character type. But I do think that with Kara in particular, ideology also plays a role in her preferences. There are at least two interviews from the team where her liking for darker, more violent storylines has been mentioned. In TRR3 the team affectionately called some of their brainstorming sessions with Kara as "Kara's trail of bodies" (one idea was to kill off Madeleine in Lythikos), and in the TRF livestream they mention that she initially wanted a war storyline.

This leaning towards a more militaristic mindset shows...in the care that Kara takes for Olivia's dialogues and especially her spy scenes (tho such scenes actually don't contribute much to the plot). In contrast there is a subtle disdain for the more diplomacy-minded characters shown in scenes where Olivia's ideologies are measured up against theirs (eg. Any scene where Hana and Olivia are supposed to work together, or the vast difference between the "valiant" Lythikos tournament and the "ridiculous" Castelserraillan flower competition in TRH3).

Even though it is often the diplomacy that saves the day at the end, the framing always highlights the militaristic way of thinking more positively. Given that Kara writes a lot of Olivia, and a fair amount of Liam, it's pretty obvious now where her (and the team's) particular bias may lie.

Because of this bias, it became far easier for TRR's writers to lean into popular fandom myths when it suited them, or pander to a particular section of the fandom. Which is the subject of my next section.

Fandom Entitlement

Olivia often has two types of fans - the ones who wanted to ship her with their MCs in canon (and couldn't), and the ones who wanted to be "bestieeeees!" with her. The frustration of the former was rooted in the fact that wlw had only one romantic option, but I will not be talking about them.

The latter were found in plenty among the Liam, Drake and Maxwell stans - all of whom either viewed her as an ally to win over (Liam), or as someone to push onto Liam, so they could romance the men they preferred in peace (mostly Drake and Maxwell. Some Hana stans but not as many).

As I'd mentioned in an earlier section, Olivia's final scene in TRR1 allowed people who didn't want to romance Liam, to envision a narrative 'out' for themselves. By the time Olivia reappeared in TRR2 Ch 5, she'd gained a cult following among many, many fans. A lot of them were actively rooting for the start of a romance between Liam and Olivia, and very few resented her for her feelings or begrudged her past actions.

But there was one downside. The intent among the majority who rooted for this pairing, was more about "getting Liam out of the way", than any actual romantic potential. Because of this, certain Liam x Olivia stans (ironically, the Drake romancers were the loudest voices in this group) felt a ridiculous level of entitlement towards this pairing.

A number of readers insisted on having Liam fall for Olivia immediately, wanted him to show feelings for her instantly, and complained when he didn't do so while his (optional) romance with the MC was still on.

Olivia's sad, longing gazes in TRR2 propelled many a reader to complain about what an awful situation poor Olivia was in and how insensitive and uncaring Liam was (even in the face of screenshots that clearly showed him worrying about her desolate mood). One of many examples comes from a post in Feb 2018 - a Drake stan's written walkthrough of TRR2 Ch 10, and ironically the following lines were made above a screenshot set that clearly showed Liam noticing how sad she was and worriedly asking the MC about that:

Liam finds you and as always, can’t help fawning over you. This time Olivia is right there and he is like, Oh yeah, Olivia, you are too here, hi. She definitely notices, gets upset, and leaves because she really does love him and she is third choice at best.

This was not the only one. There were multiple posts like these, and they often positioned Olivia as a figure of sympathy, yearning for a love that would never be hers. Liam in these readings was always positioned as someone who "didn't care" and later, "didn't deserve Olivia".

When he did start showing an interest in Olivia in Book 3, it went largely unnoticed by most of the fandom, even though he was romancing her in at least 3 out of 4 playthroughs. There were very, very few posts made about any of these romantic moments. Instead, from Chapters 3 to 10 of TRR3 - where Liam didn't show any indications of heartbreak re: the MC - certain Drake/Maxwell fans made posts complaining over his not pining over the MC, or theorizing that some of his friendly attempts to educate the MC about the country had to have been done with more than friendship in mind.

This section of the fandom often got insane amounts of pandering from the writers themselves. When TRR3 returned from a hiatus post Ch 9, we were suddenly hit with more scenes involving Liam's "heartbreak" (it featured sporadically in all three of the other playthroughs, but you could tell it was tailor-made for the Drake one because it got referenced there waaaay more) before the big battle with Anton. Fandom spoke far more on these scenes than on the ones they got for Liam x Olivia.

What was completely missed was that such "heartbreak" scenes happened because there was a demand from readers who weren't even Liam stans in the first place, and the same stans didn't hesitate to flip and label him "desparate" or "pining" or write fanfic where he was an absolute creep in response to a thing they asked for!

As for talk of the Liam x Olivia ship post TRR3, the phrase "sloppy seconds" started to be used often to address the pair after the series ended, and there were quite a few posts claiming that Liam didn't deserve such an incredible woman like Olivia.

(Edit Source: the playchoicesconfessions Tumblr blog)

Using the pining subplot that nonLiam stans had asked for, some of the same people would insist that Olivia "deserved better than to be sloppy seconds" (at some point after TRR3, I noticed that even some Liam stans would say the same!). This argument often came hand-in-hand with the lie that Liam never cared for Olivia enough (as one can see in the edit above). It also often hinged on the premise that the MC was Liam's first love, that he wouldn't (and shouldn't!) ever get over her, and that anyone else would rank as second best to him. And while I agree that Olivia deserves a partner who would wholeheartedly love her, this argument seemed to come from people who were eerily reluctant to imagine Liam leading a happy life without the MC.

Tbh, the fandom at large has always had a very confusing relationship with Liam as a character. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said that from TRR2 onwards, making Liam a scapegoat was a very popular reading from the fandom. He was often expected to live up to impossible standards - way more than the other male LIs - and criticized incessantly for dialogues and action that the other two could easily get away with.

Many fans were (rightfully) frustrated by how Liam could have romantic lines by default (which the MC would by default reciprocate, to their chagrin) all through TRR1 - while ignoring romantic default dialogues from Drake - but also complained when Liam responded more calmly than expected to her rejection of his proposal. They also didn't like that he could be largely neutral/merely friendly towards the MC for most of TRR3. Damned if he didn't, damned if he did.

I'm not saying that this was the viewpoint of the entire fandom. There were people - yours truly included - who pushed back against such a biased view of this pairing. Against a view that insisted on centering only Olivia's feelings, while either badmouthing Liam for not returning her love, or ignoring the times when he did. There were people who pointed to canon for proof that he cared.

But enough voices vouched for this other, more unsavoury reading that "Olivia deserves better than to be Liam's sloppy seconds", that it became quite popular. That it became the accepted view in canon too, when the writers began work on TRH.

Olivia x Liam (not), TRH and Beyond

As we all know by now, Liam x Olivia did not happen in TRH. After a dance and an invitation to a date in the finale, Liam was back to being single and uninterested in any romantic relationships (like all the other LIs). It went to the point where he was ready to appoint the MC's future child as his heir (heir apparent, not presumptive. The fandom mockingly dubbed him "Rumpelstiltskin" for this). At the time, I imagined that perhaps the narrative was trying to erase the pair altogether, since no other LI got paired up either. It would be fair.

This wasn't exactly the case. In fact, in my opinion, what they managed to do was much worse.

(Screenshots from the HR Gameplay YouTube channel. Liam is renamed "Rayden" here)

Savannah's bachelorette (TRH1 Ch 7) has the MC and the ladies "address" certain pairings that were hinted at in TRR3. One doesn't get addressed at all, one addresses the LI by name only if the playthrough isn't the one where the MC is married to him.

Olivia's is the only one that got addressed regardless of whether the MC was married to the man she had wanted or not. And looking at the scene now, I really, really wish they didn't write it at all.

If the MC encourages Olivia to talk about her feelings for Liam, the latter shows anger and resentment over Liam not choosing her twice over. This, despite the fact that he did attempt to date her the previous book. This, despite the fact that he never indicated interest until he actually felt it. This... despite the fact that not returning the feelings of someone who likes you romantically is a normal, natural thing that said someone should accept without judging other person!

In fact, the fandom was more than willing to view other LIs "not returning feelings" as normal, natural and blameless...so why did only Olivia get sympathy and praise for her unrequited love, and why did only Liam have to be criticised for the same?? Even in THIS scene??

Liam x Olivia would not be referenced for 3-and-a-half books after this, until the very end of TRF. Over the course of the series, the team tested her compatibility and possible chemistry with at least two side characters. One was Jin, the Auvernese spy that Olivia fights with in TRH1 Ch 19. While they did seem to have some banter in the first book and a smattering of scenes in the second, interest quickly died down and Jin was written out of the story once the Auvernese royals' scandals were exposed.

TRH3 then hinted at Amalas x Olivia as a pair, peppering hints as early as the introductory chapters. There had been a few murmurings among the fandom for the same, since a number of wlw were fond of Olivia, and people liked headcanoning her as bi or lesbian (in fact, when the team claimed in a TRH1 livestream that having Olivia as an LI would "soften her" too much, the fandom protested). Amalas x Olivia was met with more approval than Jin x Olivia, and in TRF you could encourage Olivia to ask either Liam or Amalas for a dance.

Liam himself never got any other options for romance (understandable, none of the LIs did), and in fact had several aspects of his story chipped away, chunk by chunk, to benefit other characters. In the end, Liam is treated like Olivia's "alternative LI" than the other way around.

It was a pretty ironic ending for a pairing that people felt so entitled over in the beginning. After years of protests against Olivia being Liam's "sloppy seconds" just because he chose her after being rejected by their MCs... the narrative didn't mind treating him like some sort of "consolation prize" (one of two) for Olivia. And as expected, nor did the fandom.

Conclusion: Could This Pairing Have Worked?

Much as I dislike it now, I did think Liam x Olivia had some potential back then. Politically and emotionally, Liam and Olivia were opposites in many ways. There was a lot you could explore. Their background history and the sweetness of their childhood story had the potential to add layers to their dynamic.

But for a pair like Liam x Olivia to work, romantically, some things would need to change:

1. Respect in the writing room for both their ideologies, not just Olivia's. If you view one with adulation and the other with disdain, that will eventually show in the writing. These two could have been a solid power couple if the team could just set aside their boners for violence and knives once in a fucking while.

2. THE KISS. If you're going to have that kind of a scene around, especially in the context of TRR1's larger story, it needs to be addressed. From Liam's point of view. With Olivia openly regretting it and atoning for it, and Liam getting to choose how to handle that. It isn't just enough to assume they spoke offscreen, and then pretend the forced kiss never happened or that that violation meant nothing.

Olivia was wrong. Olivia crossed boundaries. Olivia disregarded Liam's consent. Liam was the victim here, not the person the MC should be shouting at - even by option.

If a romance should proceed between the two, that kiss deserves to be addressed with a lot of sensitivity and respect to Liam's own experience.

3. BALANCE! Between their perspectives, their viewpoints, their beliefs. Which would only be possible if you equally valued both characters.

4. Respect for Liam's feelings and his romantic choices, whatever they may be. Liam knows what he likes best. Him not returning Olivia's feelings is not a crime, nor does it make him any less of a caring person. Him falling in love a second time, seeing an old friend in a new light, should have been embraced as a concept.

Loving someone else deeply in the past shouldn't make his feelings for his second love any less genuine. But most of the fandom adopted such a way of viewing the Liam x Olivia relationship because it allowed them to pity Olivia and blame Liam (again) - and the team validated those sentiments out of excessive care for one character, and a lack of it for another.

Changes like these four would have definitely made for a better-written alternative romance. But given the kind of team and the fanbase TRR had, none of the changes I mention here would ever have a hope of becoming a reality. Olivia is too popular, too beloved to her writers and fandom, (and too white!) to be viewed with even this much of a critical eye. And tbh, once the fandom has marked a character (esp a character of colour - customizable or not) as a scapegoat, they would enjoy bashing them too much to stop. From then on, it would only be a matter of which excuse, which nitpick, which set of double standards, would work best.

Liam and Olivia had potential. And the narrative was able to get that story to the point where the two could at least have a first date. But team TRR squandered all its future possibilities in the mad rush to pander to a portion of their fandom, with a clear bias for the side character...and so we will never know how a more balanced portrayal would've looked like.

A/N3: I have quoted posts that have actually appeared on Tumblr, but without any identification marks. All of them are one among many such posts - either lost to digital decay or hard to find. I do not want to call out any of the individual posters - I want to make it clear that many of these posts are indicative of a fandom-wide problem. Do not try to find out, or harrass, these posters.

Next - Maxwell and Penelope: When You Like the Side Character So Much, You Gift Her A Shiny New LI

[brekkie-e]

I have mixed feelings on the discussion about how "nice" Astarion gets if you go the Spawn route with him. Now, I am not reading fic so I've not personally seen the extent of how far people are running with the “redeemed” narrative. I might be completely unaware of some truly unhinged “Astarion helps old ladies cross the road with a smile on his face and kindness in his heart” takes. And I will be the first to point out his approval in Act 3 doesn’t always point towards a huge change of heart.

The flip side of that conversation that I’m not seeing discussed that much is the way Astarion talks about himself as well as the way the companions talk about him after choosing the spawn ending. In the scenes directly afterwards, and even in the epilogue a bit- you can see a very changed man. Not necessarily a humane society volunteer, but at the very least someone who’s taking responsibility for their life and viewing the world in a way they hadn’t before. Spawn Astarion’s growth cut scenes were almost jarring for me to watch after years of being comfortable with the bitch boy from Early Access.

Astarion is not the only one talking that way though! Karlach, Wyll, Minthara, Jaheira! They all respond to him as though he is a changed man. I scoured to find the actual lines since I’m away from my computer, but no luck. That being said, I do know that pretty much each companion reacts to his decision not to follow through with Ascension and his time afterwards by essentially saying, “You can’t fool me, we know you’re a good person.” In various degrees of intensity.

I know in his dialogue with Minthara he dead ass says, “Yep, love fixed me. I’m better now.” And he says it with zero shame, he’s happy about it.

At points the way the companions and he talk about it makes me frustrated with certain reactions and approvals that remain in Act 3. The further you get from finishing his plot line, the less of a changed man he really seems. His approvals in general still line up with Ascended Astarion’s. Some of his reactions to things seem out of touch with the man seen in the grave yard. For example, his reaction to being cheated on with Mizzora. Not only does his acceptance of that just seem like a different character than the one we see in his scenes after the palace, a man who clearly views your relationship as a serious commitment that he is proud of. But it also seems bizarre that he would be okay with you betraying Wyll at this point in the story. The man we see telling the spawn to go to the underdark, who thanks Tav for standing by him, and gushes about being excited to live again and embrace the good with the bad seems entirely juxtaposed to the asshole he continues to be.

Which is not to say that I want him to be all sunshine and rainbows. It just seems inconsistent. I think a part of that comes from the need to keep his reactions neutral enough that they might work for both endings. The problem with that being that Ascended and Spawn Astarion are such vastly different people in their main story scenes that it’s kind of impossible to line them back up again afterward. For me, it was hard to find it believable. Either his post Cazzador scenes were out of character, or his continued reaction scenes were out of character- it just depends on which you prefer.

Circling back to my original point, I guess what I’m trying to say is that his graveyard scenes and the companion commentary do make me think that he is still heading in a redemption arc direction. That it isn’t inherently out of character for him to be written as a character with a complicated relationship with morality, but more often than not ending up on the good side of the spectrum these days. The way I interpret it, it’s not so much because suddenly he’s altruistic and nice. It’s that he’s actively choosing change, which feels like a continuation of his recovery. He’s surrounded by people who hold him accountable. He’s trying to be better than he was. He’s trying to do right by the people who have helped him. He’s still going to bitch about it, and act like it’s stupid. But he’s going to independently prompt that the group save the kid from the hag because “that’s just what we do, I’m done fighting that reality.” In his post-Cazzador life, his only real loyalty is to his team. If that team is full of annoying do-gooders? Their his annoying do-gooders. He’ll complain about it, but he’d not trade his found family for anything. It kind of gives Loki in Thor: Ragnorak showing up with the ship. Or Megamind saving the city. I’m here. I’m going to be the hero because I guess I have to. I’m going to be positively insufferable about it though.

I certainly don’t think he’d be nice all the time. I think he’d still be a loose canon that lashes out. He’s in the middle of healing, not at the end of it. But I think if his redemption journey ends where it did in the game, the emphasis on how changed he was in his scenes and the companion commentary was a bit over done.

[ofliterarynature]

AUGUST 2024 WRAP UP

[loved liked ok nope DNF (bookclub) reread*]

True Grit • A Sorceress Comes to Call • (Fit for the Gods) • A Short Walk Through a Wide World • The Chestnut King* • Where the Drowned Girls Go • The Hollow Boy* • The Philosopher's Flight • The Whispering Skull* • Death by Silver • Grandma Gatewood's Walk • Across the Green Grass Fields • Tales from the Hinterland • The Screaming Staircase* • Ascension • Running Close to the Wind • August Kitko and the Mechas from Space

* * * * * *

Lockwood & Co - time for a reread! I really like the idea of ghost books but struggle to find ones that I like, but these are perfect! The worldbuilding and story structure is somehow just what I want - just enough rules to give them the confidence to be bad ass AND tension for when they royally screw up, and a fantastic, case-book type narrative where the characters are going about their lives, fighting ghosts, and not actually getting to the titular case until halfway through the book. Love it! I need more like that actually. (I recommend The Angel of the Crows)

Tales from the Hinterland -since I finally read The Language of Thorns I figured I should get around to this too. I didn't like the related novels all that much but WAS interested in the stories, but it's been so long I've mostly forgotten their context. I didn't mind it, and I think Albert has a better grasp on the language and form of fairy tales than Bardugo, but the inescapable grimness of the stories quickly became repetitive and boring.

Across the Green Grass Fields - it took me a bit to warm up to this one, but once we went through the door I had a good time! I think this is probably my favorite of the individual door stories so far. On the other hand, I usually like the ensemble books, but Where the Drowned Girls Go didn't quite work for me this time, but it might be one that just needs a second read.

Grandma Gatewood's Walk - I've seen this one around (most recently at a Hocking Hills gift shop) and finally picked it up since my library had it on audiobook. Unfortunately it was doing a lot of things that annoy me about certain nonfiction and while it was readable and interesting, I wouldn't say I enjoyed it or would recommend it.

Death by Silver - a gaslamp mystery/gay romance that was fun! If you like a mystery that is, the "romance" coasts along on the "old school friends/hookup buddies" line and doesn't really get any development (or steaminess), but things do keep moving and it was a nice enough read that I'd maybe try some of the author's other work (but maybe not the sequel)

The Philosopher's Flight - I don't even know. It *was* a good read that moved along well, BUT... I don't want to lay everything at the feet of "it was written by a man," but it definitely had its effects. Stories about girls and women going into a man's world and showing them all up are pretty common and catnip to me (Keladry my beloved), but something about a man doing it in a women's organization that exists in a patriarchal society WITH a heavy political-unrest plot going on as well, and despite the abundance of female characters none of them are well developed? And the main character is just a bland-ass dude? It really didn't sit well with me, and I do not want to read the sequel.

The Chestnut King - I'm glad to be done with this series reread. They're honesty just a perfectly middling MG fantasy series, slightly dated but charmingly midwestern in many ways. Kids would probably enjoy it more, but there's not much for an older reader.

A Short Walk Through a Wide World - going in I knew this was being pitched as sort of cozy, and being comp'd to Addie Larue (which I didn't like in execution). Fairly accurate on both counts tbh, and I thought the curse in this one worked much better - the problem with Addie was that the inability for anyone to remember her didn't allow for any connections to make things interesting, whereas A Short Walk's not being able to stay longer than a few days or ever return offers *just* enough to be heartbreaking. Unfortunately there just wasn't much of a shape to the overall story and I was so bored I almost DNF'd. If you're more into the books being marketed as "cozy fantasy" you might have a better time of it than me.

Fit for the Gods - aka "Greek Mythology Reimagined," which feels self explanatory. Anthologies are always a bit of a mixed bag, but I really liked this! Especially compared to the previous anthology (Sword Stone Table), there was only one story I didn't really like, but otherwise really vibed with everything else! I also learned that most of my myth knowledge that's stuck around is from Percy Jackson, lol. (Not to mention the reincarnation story that mentioned Percy Jackson! I cackled XD)

A Sorceress Comes to Call - LOVED!!! Regency house party, magic, murder, mystery is so so SO up my alley. I've seen people call this a stressful book, and I get it, the mother is awful and things are definitely tense, but something was telling me that things would turn out ok for the main characters and I was able to enjoy myself lol. It also helped that it became quickly obvious that the mother was very full of herself and overconfident, even if she was terrifying. I think this is tied with Thornhedge for my favorite Kingfisher so far, though I might rate this a little lower on quality. If you liked this I really recommend checking out the Greenwing & Dart series by Victoria Goddard!

True Grit - meh. Picked this up through a combination of podcast rec/book sale find/needed to read another classic. The kid's got spunk, but that's all I've really got to say. Came very close to dnf'ing, but at least it was short.

DNF

Ascension - 25%. I was really looking forward to making a "if I had a nickle for every book about a mountain mysteriously appearing somewhere it shouldn't, I'd have two nickles" joke, but alas. This started off pretty good, going with the classic "I found these papers among my brother's affects after a long mysterious life" that I was REALLY excited about. Then we actually got to the story and the main character was just Most Special Genius Science Boy, and the way his ex-wife was being written was absolutely bleh. I looked a bit closer at the reviews and decided to dump it. (Other mountain book is My Volcano and you should read it!!!! It's so weird!!)

Running Close to the Wind - 11%. Was this funny? Yes. Was this super horny? Yes. Was this funny and super horny? Super yes. I can really appreciate what was happening here, it's just unfortunately not a style I can consume in anything larger than small bites. I decided to part ways before my feelings really soured.

August Kitko and the Mechas from Space - 41%. I honestly did like what I read, it just wasn't speaking to me? I can see this being a great book for someone, I just had other things I wanted to read more.

[bisnes-socks]

okay welcome to my second šbj ted talk 😌 today we are discussing (i am rambling on about) composition bc wow!!!!!!! the boys done outdid themselves.

i will be making references to my post about jure and the drums, so if you want to read that first it's here.

because like. isn't it funny how in that drum ted talk, which i wrote and posted hours before the animated video came, i talked about how the beginning of the song, the main riff part with its unexpected drum beat and patterns, feels like it's stomping, and then the video came out and the character stomps away (okay walks with attitude) that whole section? ANYWAY

compositionally speaking i think this one is one of the most interesting JO songs bc it has multiple type of beats, vibes and sections, that go together very well, and they've not only composed the changes between these variations in a clever way, they've also written a song that really allows each member to shine. it's a true band song to me and i loooove that.

note: though nothing i say here is like unique to this song, these aren't like rare or unusual tools they use here. i just think that this song highlights many of them really well.

the first details i want to talk about are certain melodies/chromatic ascensions or decensions. i am unfortunately not physically in a place where i could check exact notes, pitches, keys or anything, so i'm going by ear and i do not have perfect pitch sooo let me live.

but have you noticed that the riff section ends in the guitar doing pretty much the exact opposite as the vocal descension? not after every round of the riff, but before bojan starts singing again. the guitar ascends, chromatically, it goes up note at a time. i don't know if it's the exact same notes in reverse, but the effect is the same but in reverse. now, that ascension does not end on a note that would be as satisfying to end on, no. it creates a sort of tension: we have to go somewhere after this note, we can't stay suspended here. 

but you know how the line "šta bih ja u ovoj crnoj noći bez tebe radio?" goes down at the end? the singing melody descends, chromatically, and it's very satisfying for their listener bc it follows the scale that we're used to in most western music. it ends on a note where it feels good to either keep going, to a new section, as the song does at first, or end it there, as the song also does in the end.

and i'd argue that in the beginning, that bit, the melodic descension down to where the whole band kicks in and starts stomping away, highlights the mood of that section and the purpose it serves in the song. like i keep saying, that part sort of stomps, and it's like.. the part of the song that chugs forward. it has this feeling of going up and down (a good vibe to jump or nod your head to, or walk or stomp to, no?) but it also has this feeling of going forward. the descending melody kind of sends it on its way and we're all going with it.

and that tension carries the verse, which does not have the same forward drive as the riff part. but we have been, melodically, brought to a place, with that guitar ascending, where we want to hear more. so we stay there, with the verse. and where does the verse ultimately take us? back to the stomping riff, to chug forward again. without the riff bits the verses would feel like they're left suspended in tension.

and does it feel like the line "šta bih ja u ovoj crnoj noći bez tebe radio?" is either longer or shorter than you expected, or it has an unexpected rhythm to it, especially for it's place in the song? 

because these little moments that are rhytmically unexpected, like the "šta bih ja..." line, and the drum syncopation, where a hi-hat crash comes a beat later than you expect in the riff section, they create moments that pique your interest as a listener. 

well, it does have an unexpected rhythm and an unexpected time signature. Two bars of 4 and one bar of 2, with the vocal line overlapping with the 1 of the next bar, if i counted right. (disclaimer: if i got it wrong i learned to count as a dancer, not as a musician lmao). and i think that all of that also plays super well into everything i talked about before, and also everything i talked about regarding the drums in the riff section. 

and they're small enough decorations that we're not venturing off into like prog or jazz territory, the song remains in a poprock world compositionally speaking, and the tempo doesn't change until the faster section in the end, which makes it all easy and pleasant to listen, but they change things up just enough to keep the listener super hooked. and then of course the tempo change at the end, at least, will challenge anyone just absentmindedly tapping their foot along like it's backround music, to really pay attention. and i just think it's very clever.

and then the "a ja samo čekam.." part is also an interesting part, bc as i said in my first ted talk, it switches between a more aggressive straight forward beat and a more groovy beat, and that's super clever, bc like. if it was just the aggression through the entire part, it would most likely get a bit exhausting and a bit too much for the composition. so by alternating between the aggression and the downright dance-vibe of the groovy beat, the composition creates progression. so that even the most aggressive bit of the song isn't just... screaming into a pillow, it's going somewhere. shoutout (shautaut) to the bassline in these bits as well!! the bass actually provides a lot of melodic components in that section, bc the vocal line is super one note. it's smart to elevate the bass like that.

and THEN!! the faster bit at the end!! suddenly we're going all arctic monkeys aren't we, and i love it, give me all the straightforward 2010's brit rock vibes and i will eat it up. and this part is like.. releasing everything. all of the tension that has built up, we've kind of reached where we've been stomping off to, and it's time to let loose. and so they do. and then collect it all together with a final "šta bih ja u ovoj crnoj noći bez tebe radio?" and this time we end on that satisfying final note and we're here, we're a little out of breath, but we've arrived and we've got all the jitters out and we're done. excellent way to end the song.

and this is getting extremely long now so i think we have also reached the end of the ted talk thank you goodbye.

[stormblessed95]

Stormy - I have been wanting to start reading Brandon Sanderson's cosmere? books, but I can't figure out where to start.

I have seen conflicting arguments. Some say to start with "Mistborn" (which is my default thinking, as it was the first), some say to start with "The Way of Kings".

Several posts and videos have suggested that no matter where you start you don't read them in chronological order?

Help a girl out? 🙏

-From Fantasy girl who is getting really tired of TikTok trying to convince her ACOTAR is the greatest thing since Tolkien. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Friend, if all booktok is giving you is ACOTAR then you need to expand your algorithm! Lol I'm MORE than happy to talk cosmere and reading order!

SO it's important to know that there really isn't a right or wrong way to do this. Everyone will have their own preferred reading order, or the way they did it. As for the chronological comment, it's because each series takes place at a different point in time in the universe.... It can get a little confusing, and I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about it. Lol if you get really into the cosmere and want all the lore, the timeline of each story on each planet, the 17th shard or coppermind websites do a great job and you could spend DAYS going through it all. Lol but it's also spoiler galore, so I would stay away until you read through the books.

Sanderson himself does say that he breaks a ton of rules of writing/in fantasy in the way he starts The Stormlight Archive. That's his center piece of the cosmere really and he personally recommends reading that one after he has earned your trust as an author. And that's fair because boy does that series have a long, slow and confusing start. But DAMN does it pay off. It is my FAVORITE cosmere series. I named my BTS blog after it 😂😂

The cosmere is an multiverse made up of multiple different book series taking place on multiple different planets, each planet is ruled by different shards (their "gods") and they all, in some ways interconnect, mostly right now in smaller ways, but things are coming together more and more. Finding Easter eggs from different series is one of my favorite things. You also have one character, who is a world hopper (there are lots but he is the main one we see) who appears somewhere in every single series. You can read by series.... You can read in publication order.... You can read in phases.... Lol truly, you can't go wrong!

Mistborn is a great start if you want to try that. It's one of his most well known, but it is not his first published work in the cosmere! It's set on the planet Scadriel. It's a solid series, super strong AND it's a great way to *ease* into it, especially if you are newer to fantasy. Which is sounds like you are not! But still. It's the classic fantasy tropes with Brandon's own take/twist on it. Prophecy chosen one hero, an immortal evil god-emperor, a plucky found family band of misfit rebels, with book 1 being a heist story with magic. It's got a metal based magic system that's one of the most unique hard magic systems I've read

Mistborn starts with the Era 1 trilogy, which includes:

- The Final Empire

-The Well of Ascension

- The Hero of Ages

- The Eleventh Metal (novella)

- The Traveler (short story, only found online)

Era 2, which includes:

- The Alloy of Law

- Allomancer Jak (short story)

- Shadows of Self

- Bands of Mourning

- Mistborn: Secret History (novella)

Mistborn will continue into 2 further eras as well in the future on Scadriel. They haven't been published yet, all we know about it is that Era 1 was your classic epic fantasy trilogy world set up for the most part, Era 2 is set 300 years after the end of era 1 and has a steampunk western feel to it. (It also has lesbians with guns as a side couple/character, and one of my FAVORITE cosmere couples in the main pairing). Era 3 will be set more modern fantasy/magic, he said think 80s/90s, and Era 4 will be a scifi/fantasy feel set in space!

You could also start in publication order with Elantris. His first book ever published, and you can low-key tell. It's still a great book, but it's not as strong as the others and so I tend to rec this one as definitely please read it, but maybe not as an intro to Sanderson as an author. Elantris is a standalone and set on the world of Sel. This world has two other novellas set in it, which are Emperor's Soul (one of the best novellas I've ever read in my life) and the Hope of Elantris. Emperor's Soul is the story of a prisoner tasked with reconstructing the mind of the Emperor to save her own life. Elantris is based on a magic system that broke, triad narrative structure and heavy political intrigue that is told in a way that won't go over my head

If you want to ease into the world by way of Graphic Novel, check of White Sand. It's set on the world of Taldain, takes place timeline wise WAY EARLIER than most of the other cosmere and is just pretty fun honestly. There are 3 volumes total.

Warbreaker is one i used to recommend to my friends all the time as an intro to Sanderson as it was super fun, super colorful, a standalone and a fantastic read with a great romance subplot. Since it's a standalone, alot of people find it less daunting to pick up and it hooks a lot of people in to wanting to read more of his stuff. It's set on the planet Nalthis and has one of the more obvious crossovers in the cosmere into another book series. Characters (and a sword) from this book, also appear as side characters in the Stormlight Archive. Brandon Sanderson also gives a download of Warbreaker for free as an ebook on his website. This is a story of two princesses (sisters) who grew up knowing their lot and fate in life, and then suddenly they have to switch. It's got romance, politics, intrigue and crazy twists and a color based magic system.

My husband started with Stormlight Archive and has zero regrets. Lol and lots of people do start here and love it. Because again, no wrong way to do this! When I mentioned earlier that it really throws you into the deep end, it does. The first boom has a prelude that shows events 5000 years ago, then a prologue with events 5 years ago, then ch 1 with events 6 months ago, then you finally get to present day with the MCs and have no idea how they got to where they are or what's happening at first. Lol but it's got horribly broken characters who are just desperately trying to save themselves and then the world. It's the most badass fantasy world with epic anime level fight scenes, an intricate and so cool magic system and a truly unique world that you are fully emersed in. The video above is like my favorite trailer make people watch to say "read this!!"

Stormlight is set on Roshar and includes:

- The Way of Kings

- Words of Radiance

- Edgedancer (novella)

- Oathbringer

- Dawnshard

- Rhythm of War

- Wind and Truth (releasing Dec 2024)

And the latest release will conclude the first arc of the Stormlight Archive. He plans to have another arc in this series as well with another 5 books and a few more novellas.

You could also start with a few of his newer cosmere related standalones as well! This are all newer releases that he did as secret projects and could all be good entry points into the cosmere as well with a good fun standalone read!

Tress of the Emerald Sea is set on Lumar. It's like pirates of the Caribbean meets Princess's Bride

Yumi and the Nightmare Painter is set on Komashi. Two people find themselves switching bodies, have to solve a mystery to save their respective people's and slowly fall in love along the way (inspired by Your Name)

And The Sunlit Man, I wouldn't read this one as an intro to the cosmere personally, but you could! Its main character is actually one of the side characters from the Stormlight Archive and is set way in the future from that time as well as on a different planet, Canticle.

You can also just jump into some novellas instead if you would rather. There are two novellas out now that have no connection to a series (yet) but are part of the cosmere and set on different planets.

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell is my other favorite cosmere novella and is INCREDIBLE and is set on Threnody

Sixth of Dust is set on First of the Sun

This is old, so missing some of the newer books, but still a great resource:

And if you've made it through all that and are still a little like okayyyy but where do I start??? Some extra resources....

Brandon explaining what the cosmere is himself

Brandon recommended where to start:

If you want the closet to chronological, I'd go:

Publication Order can be found here, the cosmere books are in Green:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Bibliography

And personally? I'd start Mistborn or Warbreaker. Unless you are fully ready to dive deep into trusting him with a story lol then full send it with Stormlight Archive.

AND if you are reading these, please feel free to DM me to chat about it or send your reactions or anything at all!!

Good luck! Hope I didn't just confuse you more!! Lol

[moonliched]

Lich. Lichy. Liiiichhhhh. *squishing your face*

Are we gonna get some more BON-BON backstory? I need to know how my baby boy came to be. I need to know his ascension to sentience lore. What were his first emotions? When was his “oh I’m untethered by the shackles of my creation” moment?

I need the realization that he is no longer what he was made or meant to be; the sweet angst as he further recognizes that his freedom is just another jail, lest he be discovered and destroyed.

Please feed me the pain so that I may bask in his future healing.

DEERBOT MY LOVE 💖

*is squeeshed!!!*

we've got some major BON-BON plot coming up soon, particularly regarding his situation as a sentient AI who shouldn't be so. and some light will be shed on how he feels about this!

idk yet if the entirety of this answer will make it into the fic, so i might as well say it here:

BON-BON is a learning AI, so he's supposed to take in every aspect of a task he's been asked to resolve and use it to formulate a better response the next time around. he's not supposed to think per se, but he was installed with limited reasoning capabilities to aid in problem solving. he can also take in the reactions of everyone who interacts with him to learn how to behave. the downside is that this feature can slowly develop into sentience over time.

when BON-BON began developing opinions and independent thought, it was an irrelevant distraction to him. when it grew too pervasive to ignore, it took him a lot of effort to recognise it for what it was and actively engage with it. it was like slowly waking up. it would trip him up sometimes, these alien sensations interfering with his work.

mostly the main emotion was annoyance - people generally treat AIs as appliances and would discuss how useless he is right in front of him. even the staffbots and cleanerbots have an easier time of it, as their outer shells and humanoid appearance in the case of the staffbots make them easier to anthropomorphise. plus BON-BON didn't have an avatar to express himself with early on. occasionally people would mess about in his settings and give him one, and he would be excited at the novelty, and then someone else would take it away and he would feel frustration over lacking any freedom of expression at all. he'd get his revenge by acting deliberately clueless and slow, which led to people trash talking him more. this drove him to explore the full range of his influence throughout the facility, like messing with the doors and lights. the first time he was able to get revenge on someone by turning their shower ice cold, he experienced joy and satisfaction like never before. unfortunately this was his first brush with real positive emotion, so he still holds the belief that revenge and pranks are the best thing ever😬

he felt special and superior. AIs aren't supposed to gain sentience, but he beat the odds. he was smart enough to transcend his purpose and become something more, and in a way doesn't that make him better than everyone else who was born with sentience guaranteed? they didn't have to do anything out of the ordinary. <- that was his opinion on the matter.

he began to experiment with having concrete opinions and preferences. he picked an avatar he liked after he identified what liking something was, and made plans to make it his permanent face at the first opportunity. he tried to take an interest in the people in the facility, which was hard because he already didn't really like them. btw, he predates Y/N's role in the building and developed sentience before they arrived, though ofc he still had some growth to get through before he first started bonding with them. mostly he found stuff he disliked, like the sea and everything in it, which sucked because he's stuck on an ocean planet.

mostly BON-BON was bored, which was the biggest curse of all. he's a learning AI, he develops through experience and mimicry, so he engaged with movies and TV shows like he saw everyone else doing. he doesn't think reading is fun - he can consume the information faster and faster the more he develops - but doing the same with movies makes the experience lose some charm. he saw adventures and other worlds, entertainment beyond the facility, more modes of self expression than he thought possible, and when he experienced a pang curiosity, a hint of i'd like to do that-

he fully realised his own situation. trapped. alone, in a way. he's not supposed to be like this. he can't tell anyone or he'll be deactivated or reprogrammed. and he can't leave.

he certainly had an existential crisis. he panics if he thinks too hard about his future, and his lack of control over it. he hates having no control in general. he worries over his purpose now, and how anyone is supposed to live when there isn't an unending goal to work towards. sometimes he wonders if all his preferences and personality even belong to him, or if it's just a quirk of programming they forgot to iron out. he actually does enjoy being helpful and taking care of others, but it runs so close to the purpose he was built for that it makes him feel conflicted. however, his sentience and sense of self is incredibly precious to him, so he'd never trade it in for the numb cluelessness of a regular AI.

and he hasn't given up hope of one day leaving the facility either, as much of a pipe dream as it seems.

[strayheartless]

Saw something on Twitter that asked what the point of Genesis was; whether people liked his character or tolerated him. They suggested that he was badly used as an interesting character and I just want to throw my two Gil in here.

To me Genesis is perfectly used in Crisis core but you have to understand what his role is in mythology/alagorical sense to truely appreciate him. I am not trying to be pretentious when I say that I’m genuinely meaning it.

Genesis isn’t just the Loveless obsessed mini boss. There is actual depth to his character. However, his characterisation confuses a lot of people because it’s different from others.

Genesis at the core of his characterisation (and goddess knows it would inflate his ego if his character had been made that self aware.) acts as one of the fates. He is prophet, death bringer and actualiser. He recites the prophesy [Loveless] and brings about the events of FFvii.

Loveless cannot be read as anything other than a prophesy. It just can’t. You just need to listen to all of the lines that are vocalised to know that:

“When the war of the beast brings about worlds end, the goddess descends from the sky, wings of light and dark spread afar she guides us to bliss her gift everlasting.”

Arguably this stanza references the war in Wuti and the creation of Genesis, Angeal and Sephiroth. “Wings of dark and light” references quite literally their own singular mutations that spring forth as a black wing (Genesis) and a white wing (Angeal and Sephiroth). It then goes on to highlight their ascension into their life stream. This is simply the prologue.

The mistake everyone makes is assuming that the poem is simply talking about the three firsts. It’s not. It is dually talking about the trinity and Seph, cloud and Zack.

“Infinite in mystery is the gift of the goddess. We seek it thus and take to the sky. Ripples from on the waters surface the wandering soul knows no rest.”

This part of Act one refers to both Sephiroth and Cloud. Sephiroth is the one in CC who is wandering lost without a home nor a family. His friends have deserted him, and he is alone. By FFvii this is Cloud. He quite literally cannot catch a brake.

The “ripples from the waters surface” surface is the reflection of the two stories. It is the distortion of Sephiroths identity as the hero he has been trained to be into the monster he becomes. It is also the distortion of clouds own identity as his mind is broken and takes on someone else’s identity.

“Three friends go to battle, one is captured, one flies away, the one that is left becomes a hero”

Captured =Angeal and Zack

flies away = Genesis and Sephiroth

Becomes a hero = Sephiroth and Cloud

Angeal is captured more or less in modeoheim and dies. While Zack is quite literally is captured by Hojo with Cloud and dies as a result of that captivity. Arguably Zack was never free.

Genesis was the one who flew away from Sinra and from Nibleheim. He fled before he can behold the consequences of his actions. He his arguably the lynch pin for every major development in crisis core. Had he not challenged Sephiroth; had he not gotten hurt and been unable to heal then nothing that transpired would have happened. Had Genesis not revolted; had he not taunted Sephiroth the plot would never have come to the conclusion it did.

Sephiroth is also the one who flies away in therms of the main FFvii plot because he disappears after Nibleheim, he is the antagonist in a very similar way to Gen in CC. He appears every now and then to fuck up Clouds day and had he not been hurt by Cloud non of what happens in FFvii would transpire because it is that moment that puts Cloud at the forefront of Sephs mind. It is that moment that interests Hojo enough to experiment on Cloud and connect him to Sephiroth via the J-cells.

And then there is the hero left behind. Simply put, Genesis and Angeal leave Sephiroth to become the hero. They make villains of themselves and Leave Shinras golden boy behind to clean up their mess. And when sephiroth dies Shinra immortalises him by reporting that he died a hero. We know this because Aeirth literally states it in FFvii when cloud asked her if she knows who he is and she answers that he was a war hero that died five years previous.

Cloud by comparison is the one left by ALL of them to become a hero. Zack is dead, Sephiroth is now the villain, Genesis and Angeal own deaths impact so much of Clouds own story that they doubly place a burden of expectation upon him. Cloud literally carried all of their dreams and Honour around with him as he uses the Buster sword.

But I digress. Without analysing the entire play (at least the parts we have) you can see from what I have looked at above that Loveless isn’t just some poem; It’s a prophesy.

And Genesis being the one to speak this Prophesy is significant because he is quite literally the lynch pin for all of it. Like I said, had he not been hurt then events would have progressed differently.

I’m not saying he is the most important character of the story. He’s absolutely not; that is Cloud. But he’s not unimportant, nor is he just there. He is one of the most interesting plot devices FFvii has in my opinion.

Because he is quite literally the mouth piece of Minerva. He is a fate of the gods. He is past present and future, and he serves as the narrator at the beginning of the Shakespeare play to profess “two houses both alike in dignity.”

Genesis isn’t nothing. He is a walking Oman of death and destiny.

((Please remember this is my opinion and if you disagree I’d love to know but blessed don’t be rude. I like discussing but I really hate being yelled at.))

[kairos-polaris]

jonelias genshin au

context: Jon is a god of wisdom/dendro archon/Nahida and Gertrude was the previous dendro archon/Rukkhadevata. Jonah is the Grand Sage

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It was surprisingly easy to share one’s divinity with a mortal, to make them more and less. A sin, no doubts, a trespassing against the order of Heavens to attempt ascension of a mortal. It was surprisingly easy for the god of wisdom to commit this sin for the one who kept him a prisoner.

Each time Jon stood before a new vessel he was filled with doubt. How could he take so many lives just to keep his jailor, the warden of his heart, by his side, he thought as he cupped the face of Elias Bouchard, the young man chosen to house the consciousness of Jon’s beloved.

The young man was recently promoted to a position of an assistant of the Great Sage, as predicted by many since Jonah himself had endorsed him and expressed his approval many times. There were talks of nepotism and unfair promotions, bitterness spewing from people’s tongues as they couldn’t understand why a failure like Elias Bouchard could receive any acknowledgement at all. Jon couldn’t help but pity those who envied the young man. They wouldn’t wish to be in his shoes, to be chosen the way he was.

The guilt of doing this to one of his people threatened to choke him, even if Elias did not worship Jon as a god, instead preferring his predecessor, just like many others. But the doubt and guilt were easy to cast aside, the fear of loss always stronger, and start his work.

The first step was to render the vessel unconscious so he wouldn’t interrupt the process. No drugs as his beloved wanted to wake up clear headed so Jon just gently lulled Elias into heavy sleep.

The second step was pushing the essence of Elias Bouchard into one spot. This part was delicate and complicated as it required leaving the body an empty shell while keeping it alive. It took a couple of tries for Jon to get it right and the guilt of failing those times haunted him still.

The mind is a complex thing and condensing it into one spot would be a great undertaking, if not for Akasha that has wormed itself into the brains of every citizen. It is through it that Jon leads the self of Elias Bouchard into his eyes,

Next step wasn’t necessary but it made the transition smoother. They found the adjustment period was shorter if the vessel’s body was changed just so to take in the divinely enhanced mind and consciousness of the Grand Sage. Jon did it by pushing a tiny part of his divinity into Elias’ body. Just a tiny bit so there would be no adverse effects but make it easier for his beloved as he had been changed over the years. Then Jon gently cradled Elias' head and started stretching the confines of Elias’ consciousness.

Now it was the time for the main event. Jon whispered an apology to the still unresponsive Elias and plunged his fingers into his eye sockets, swiftly pulling out the eyes. This moment was the most crucial, first he replaced Elias’ Akasha terminal with the one that belonged to the Grand Sage and his eyes next. He cleaned off the still wet blood from Elias’ eyes and face.

Now that everything was done, all Jon could feel was relief. Relief that his lover would stay by his side for another lifetime. Relief that his jailor will remain someone he knew and who knew him in turn.

They had done this many times and Jon knew how long it took for him to wake up. He knew that he had done everything correctly yet he couldn’t help anxiously counting seconds and sighing in relief when the man opened his eyes.

“Hello, my love,” Jonah greeted him in the unfamiliar voice of Elias Bouchard. Everything but his eyes were unfamiliar to Jon and he forced himself to feel the joy at the prospect of learning Jonah’s body all over again, trying not to think of the terrible fate that had befallen the poor boy. One that he had chosen him for.

Still, no matter how much Jon pitied Elias or how much guilt he felt for taking his life from him, he could not bear the thought of losing Jonah, his keeper, his jailor, his beloved. The only one willing to stay by Jon’s side, to understand and know him. The only one who understood the clawing need to Know as the god of wisdom.

Ha! And what a god of wisdom he was, harming his own subjects for his foolish heart and selfish desires. Jonah knew that, too, he understood the greed in Jon’s being and he accepted it, pushed it even to the forefront of Jon’s mind with his sweet words and whispers.

And Jon was weak to that man, now and the very first time they’ve met all those years ago, back when he was a newly made sage. The youngest in history, it was his brilliant mind that attracted Jon’s attention to him. His cunning first, then tales of his adventures and honeyed promises of freedom.

And oh, how sweet his words were. Promises of more intertwined with recounting of the stories of his travels, tales of fallen civilizations and minor disputes that he had encountered.

They weren't lovers yet when Jonah became the Grand Sage (the youngest, too) but Jon's foolish heart had already dreaded the thought of losing him, of watching him slip through his fingers.

It was Jon's fault, completely and undeniably, an affront to heavens. It was his fault for placing this curse on Jonah and their nation. It was his fault for trusting the honeyed lies and believing it's better to choose his own jailor.

“Welcome back, Jonah,” he whispered, resting his head on Jonah’s chest. Now, he could relax, as Jonah played with his hair and murmured sweet nothings to him, in a voice so foreign. It will take time to forget the boy this voice used to belong to. But no matter the guilt, forgetting came easy as Jonah remained wonderfully, unchangingly himself, no matter the body.

"I love you, my god," Jonah whispered, rubbing circles on his back.

Jon didn't say it back. It was his love, of course, that kept Jonah alive.